March 30, 2014 by Success Nwogu
Prof. Ayo Bamgbose
How was your growing up like?
Let us skip the primary schools and go to the higher ones. I attended St Andrews College, Oyo, which was a teacher training institution. The wonderful thing about the place was that they instilled a lot of discipline in the students. Everything that I am today came from that place. They taught us to be self-reliant; they taught us to be responsible and how to use our hands and brains.
Each student had one quarter of an acre of land to cultivate. We had to plant maize and yams. When I entered the college I was 16 years old and yet I had to do all these.
Later, I went to the University College, Ibadan, when it was still under University of London. I graduated with B.A. Hons (Upper Class) in 1960. I also proceeded to the University of Edinburgh the same year for my post graduate studies. In 1961, I obtained a diploma in General Linguistics and a Ph.D in Linguistics in 1963.
How would you rate the education in those days against what it is now?
They are different. In those days, we were very few. For instance, when I entered the University of Ibadan, if you are in a hall, you knew almost everybody. But now, we are dealing with 3,000 or 4,000 students and even above. How can one know all of them?
Also, the conditions are different. When I was at the University College Ibadan, in my hall, I had a whole room to myself. Stewards came to take my clothes for laundry kneeling down. They cleaned the room and on Sunday, four students shared one chicken. You cannot get that anymore.
The quality of education has gone down today because, first, the facilities are not there. Also, commitment is not there at all levels. You find teachers selling bags and other materials when they should be teaching. Teachers are now traders.
Even at the university level, people should be doing research. But many of them today are pursuing contracts and other personal concerns.
Can you remember one striking experience you had as an undergraduate?
In 1957, I went in for the three years programme because I already had A’ levels. On that fateful day, the students got together and decided to break fences. The university had erected fences to control movement but the students felt uncomfortable. So, they grouped and started mobilising other students. I was in my room and suddenly I heard a knock. When I opened the door, I saw some students and they told me to come and join them. I said, ‘ok!’ But I did not join them. I simply closed my door after they had gone.
But when punishment came, we were all sent away. All of us were asked to go home. The entire university was closed down. But after pleading, they brought us back and we paid fines, even though I did not take part. That was an experience!
How did you take it, being punished for an offence you did not commit?
There was nothing I could do. It was a general punishment.
But you must have felt bad?
No, it was okay. I just said, ‘It was good I did not go out. Supposing I had gone out and someone hit me, that would have been unpleasant.’
As an intelligent student, you must have had many female admirers or girlfriends?
You mean intelligent students must have girlfriends? My own was book, book and book. I was very studious. I never allowed myself to be distracted. I used to be handsome, so girls looked at me but I had one focus, which was my education.
Are you saying one can’t combine academics with a relationship?
One can combine the two. I see some young ones who are in that business. I tell them that they should have a normal and good relationship devoid of immorality and that they should also be focused on their studies. They should combine the two but they should know what they are doing. They must not lose sight of their academics and goals in life because if the young man does not progress in life, the lady will find another man.
What about your career life?
I joined the University of Ibadan staff as Lecturer Two in 1963. But I was lucky to get rapid promotion. Things that now take people 12 or 15 years and even above; between lecturer two and professor, took me only five years. I was lucky to be one of the pioneers. If I was not a pioneer lecturer, it would not have happened. Today, it takes longer.
How did you met your wife?
I met my wife when I was teaching. I was a primary school teacher and she was also a primary school teacher. I later got married to her.
How did you ask her out?
Why are you interested in that? If you have been together, it is easy. I was the sectional head and she had to submit her lesson notes to me. So, I was like her supervisor. Because of her comportment and how she carried on with her duties, I became more interested in her. That is how we started and the rest is history.
Are you satisfied with the university system in Nigeria?
I do not think anyone can be satisfied especially if someone has read the NEEDS report. The Federal Government set up a committee that produced a bulky document on facilities, teaching, in fact, everything in the university system. When I read that report, I almost wept because I saw deplorable facilities in some universities. Girls bathing in the open, people sitting outside the classroom because there are no spaces for them and even toilets that are not fit for even pigs are in some of the universities. So, a lot is wrong with the system. They need to be put right.
What is the solution?
What should be done is first is to renew the mode of appointment of the leadership of universities. There is too much politicking. We should make sure that we have competent people in competent positions. If you put someone who is not competent as head of an institution, he would only attract to himself people of like stature that will not ‘disobey’ him.
The university is not a place where you have master/ servant relationships. We are all colleagues and the head is just first among equals. That is the way it should be.
Secondly, government should jettison the mindset that they will not charge fees. Let fees be charged. The same people who send students to federal universities pay lots of money in private secondary schools. They even send their wards to private secondary schools where fees are charged in dollars. You do not get to the university and then pay a ridiculous amount.
So, let government allow fees to be charged. You can peg it at a level. Then, the university authorities will add that money to whatever is given to them through allocation and then provide better facilities.
Thirdly, let teachers be well motivated and well paid so that they can deliver properly. What many lectures do in universities is part time, the main work, they do elsewhere. Some of them do part-time teaching in other universities. Some teachers have one main job in one university and three part-time jobs. That would not help anybody because we need to do research to have good teachers.
A good number of university lecturers do not do research anymore either because the facilities are not there or because they are no longer well-motivated to do research.
As far as students are concerned, we should make sure that the method of admission is streamlined. Giving educationally disadvantaged areas preference is not healthy for educational growth.
Admission should be by merit. When people come in through the back-door, they will pass examinations through the back-door. And when they go out for jobs, they will not do well. Of course, they will also get jobs through the back-door. Let us see Nigeria as our country and where merit counts.
Why have you have been calling for a greater use of indigenous languages?
If indigenous languages are not used, we are marginalising a greater proportion of our people; 80 to 90 per cent will be excluded from what is going on. Even the people who claim to know English Language, which is our official language, are not really competent in it. We need to emphasise a language which people are already good in communicating, to reach them and by reaching them, they can participate.
We are talking of participatory democracy. It can only flourish if as many people as possible actually participate. It is not when some people are up there trying to represent the people who do not know things that are going on.
The Federal Ministry of Finance under Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala has been publishing revenue allocations of all the states and local governments. I wonder how many people at the local level read it.
If I know that my local government has received millions of naira, I will go to the chairman of my local government and say, ‘Why are you telling me that there is no money? I read the papers and I saw this.’ That is the kind of thing I am talking about. Let the people be informed.
At 82, you still look strong. What is the secret?
I do not know. People have asked me this question many times. I think most of it is by the grace of God. But part of it is discipline. I discipline myself and do everything in moderation. I do not drink. I do not smoke. Fortunately, I have passed the age of following women. I take my regular exercise and I eat sparingly. So, that is it.
How do you exercise?
I have tried a lot of things. I used to go the gym to exercise. At some point, I felt that was too vigorous for me. What I now do is to take a walk for at least one hour.
Everyday?
Not every day.
When was your happiest day in life?
It is difficult to say. Perhaps if you are looking for something and you do not have it and it comes, like the day you get a letter saying you are admitted to some institution, that is something joyful.
When was our saddest day?
My saddest day was the day I lost my mum who I wished saw me grow into what I am now. Another sad day for me was the day my wife died. She was my companion for 50 years and she passed on. I felt very sad and heart- broken that day.
How many children and grandchildren do you have?
I have many children
What is your advice to your contemporaries?
They should be knowledgeable about their health. Many of our people are not knowledgeable about what is going on with their health. I know people of my age who still drink alcohol. I am not criticisng them. If their bodies can take it, fine. There are some of them who will take two or more eggs a day. That is a source of cholesterol. There are some who will add more salt to their food. All these things are unfavourable to good health but many people do not know. People should be knowledgeable about things that can improve their longevity.
After knowledge, discipline is another strategy. Some of the things I do are not easy.
What is your advice to young people?
They should concentrate on their studies or on their endeavours. They must not be too money conscious. People say ‘it does not matter, God will provide.’ I say to my grandchildren, ‘God does not ordinarily provide. You have to take care of what you have.’
I retired in 1990. How much do they pay me by way of pension? Very small! Yet I live well. How do I do it? If I had not saved, would I be able to do that?
What is your experience in retirement?
I have to continue to be active. I have done almost as much work after retirement as I did while I was still in service. I continue to write and do other academic activities. If you come to my house, you will find me using my laptop. I am always with it. I am always working with my laptop. One must be busy after retirement. Otherwise the person will just die if the person does not engage his energies.
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